Episode 76

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Published on:

1st Jul 2022

76 — Detransition Part II — The Emerging Picture in Research

In this second episode on detransition (following from EP 74), Sasha and Stella dig into several pieces of research on detransition experiences. They discuss surveys and case studies and analyze the data which is forming a picture of why detransition happens and what appropriate therapeutic care might look like for this vulnerable group. Themes emerge such as misattributing distress to the body’s sex, unprocessed grief and trauma, medical complications, and dissatisfaction with medical transition.

Links:

Genspect Analysis of detrans Reddit survey: 

https://genspect.org/analysis-of-reddit-detrans-survey/

Pablo Exposito-Campos Detransition Paper: 

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2020.1869126

Lisa Littman’s Research Papers: 

https://littmanresearch.com/publications/

Littman on Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast — EP 52: https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/52-gender-dysphoria-detransition-research-a-conversation-w-dr-lisa-littman

Genspect Highlights of Lisa’s Paper: 

https://genspect.org/detransition-highlights-of-dr-littmans-latest-peer-reviewed-study/

Case Study: “Maya,” Lisa Marchiano 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1468-5922.12711 

The Seventh Penis, Bob Withers: 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25989331/

Detransition-Related Needs & Support Survey, Vandenbussche: 

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00918369.2021.1919479

Detrans reddit survey (not formal data) 

https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/comments/srpp27/the_rdetrans_demographic_survey_screened_and/

Taking the Lid off the Box: 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330911243_'Taking_the_lid_off_the_box'_The_value_of_extended_clinical_assessment_for_adolescents_presenting_with_gender_identity_difficulties


Extended Notes

  • The 1% regret rate stat is misleading.
  • There is no clear understanding of how many people change their minds about transitioning.
  • Gender dysphoria is different than sex dysphoria.
  • Some are disappointed because they say the physical reality of transitioning wasn't very satisfying.
  • We are all vain. We all care about how we look.
  • There are medical complications with transition surgery.
  • Does a relationship to sexual orientation keep someone in a trans-identity longer?
  • Autistic people might be more likely to remain transitioned.
  • In one study, 70% of respondents said they realized their gender dysphoria was related to other issues.
  • Is human suffering, in all of its bizarre variations, something we must eradicate as soon as we have the means? Sasha says no.
  • The number of people in de-trans Reddit is over 34,000 as of this recording.
  • Pablo Expósito Campos started the conversation with core de-trans and non-core de-trans.
  • There is a de-transition of the mind (letting go of gender identity theory) and the de-transition of the body.
  • The idea that gender transition encompasses all of a person’s issues has to change.
  • Not all medical transitions result in the “promised land” for transitioners.
  • Sasha believes the possibility exists to get everyone on board about finding the root cause of distress through gender identity therapy.
  • Stella doesn’t think medical gatekeeping is the way forward. An awareness campaign would offer more information.


This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.


For more about our show: https://linktr.ee/WiderLensPod


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About the Podcast

Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast
Two therapists explore the expanding concept of "gender" from a psychological depth perspective.
Gender dysphoria has become a minefield for public discussion, with many afraid to express their views or question the narrative. Our mission is to examine this important and complex topic from a range of perspectives, but always through a psychological lens. By openly considering and examining gender identity, transition, and the transgender umbrella, we hope to give all interested parties permission to engage these fascinating topics with less fear and more honesty. Interviews and discussions will involve clinicians, medical professionals, academics, transgender people, parents, detransitioners and other interesting individuals whose lives have been touched by the concept of gender.

Conversations between two practicing therapists give listeners an opportunity to contemplate gender from a depth perspective not currently taken up in most of today’s accessible debates. As a result of their work with gender dysphoric therapy clients as well as their personal divergent experiences with gender, Stella and Sasha hold a refreshing and informed perspective.

Is gender identity a facilitation of development and expression of creativity, or can it be a defense against painful existential realities of living in a human body? What can we discover about masculinity, femininity, identity, gender performance, and sexuality when we peer beneath the surface and dive into a deeper psychological exploration? What is the relationship between body, mind, identity, culture, and psyche?

This podcast engages listeners in an intimate and fascinating behind-the-scenes inquiry about a topic as taboo as it is salient today.

* We are sponsored by ReIME and Genspect.
Rethink Identity Medicine Ethics (ReIME) is a non-profit organization dedicated to improving long term care for gender variant individuals. To learn more, visit https://rethinkime.org/

Genspect is an international alliance of parent and professional groups whose aim is to advocate for parents of gender-questioning children and young people. Parents are concerned that their kids are not receiving appropriate treatment and support; many do not feel free to speak out about their concerns.
To learn more, visit https://genspect.org/
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About your hosts

Stella O'Malley

Profile picture for Stella O'Malley
Stella O’Malley is a psychotherapist and author who works in private practice in Ireland. Her work focuses on parenting, family dynamics and working with teenagers.

Much of Stella’s counselling and writing focuses on mental health and the importance of well-being and she is a regular contributor to the media. She is also the resident psychotherapist for the current TV series, Raised by the Village, a family programme that helps troubled teenagers reconnect with themselves and their families.

Stella's first book, Cotton Wool Kids, was released in 2015 while Bully-Proof Kids: Practical tools to help kids grow up confident, resilient and strong was released in 2017. Stella’s latest book Fragile, was released in 2019 and focuses on overcoming anxiety and stress.

Stella was the presenter of the documentary Trans - Kids: It’s Time To Talk broadcast on Channel 4 in November 2018 and she contributed a chapter to the 2019 book, Inventing Transgender Children and Young People.

The Jungian analyst, Lisa Marchiano, and Stella launched Secrets of the Motherworld in September 2019, offering thoughtful exploration of the most intimate aspects of motherhood in a bid to help mothers feel less alone.

Stella is a Clinical Advisor for the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine and a founding member of the International Association of Therapists for Desisters and Detransitioners. She is also the lead facilitator for the Gender Dysphoria Support Network.

Stella holds a B.A. in Counselling and Psychotherapy and a M.A. in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.



Sasha Ayad

Profile picture for Sasha Ayad
Sasha Ayad is a Licensed Professional Counselor who works in private practice, and has treated adolescents for over 10 years. Her work focuses on teens and young adults struggling with issues of gender dysphoria and gender identity.

She became interested in the sharp rise in teenagers who declare a trans identity for the first time during adolescence. She discovered, through working with hundreds of families, that many teens were developing gender dysphoria only after adopting a transgender identity. She questions the practice of medical transition for children and teenagers, and her clinical work focuses on developmentally appropriate, least-invasive-first talk therapy.

Sasha is also a founding member and Clinical Advisor in the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine and a founding member of the International Association of Therapists for Desisters and Detransitioners.

Sasha’s previous work experience includes:
- School counselor for middle and high school students at a charter school for underserved communities

- Behavioral therapy with children on the autism spectrum

- Individual and group counseling for women and children impacted by domestic abuse and sexual violence

- Developed and ran the first counseling program at a large state supported living facility for adults with intellectual disability

Sasha holds a B.S. in Psychology and an M.Ed. in Counseling Psychology.