Episode 74

74 - Detransition - Part 1: Going Back & Moving Forward

Published on: 17th June, 2022

In today’s episode, Stella and I begin our discussion of detransition. This is an incredibly rich, important, and complex topic, and we certainly don’t think we can lift up EVERY aspect of it. But in this episode, and episode 76 (the one after next), we’ll begin to explore detransition. Today, you’ll hear our initial observations and some random musings. We touch on some of the patterns and dynamics we’ve observed and how things have evolved in the world of detransition over the last several years. We highlight the vast differences between people’s experiences of detransition and how sometimes, the pathway into a trans identity may impact the pathway out.


In episode 76, we’ll start diving into the literature and research we now have about detransition. We’ll look at a few important papers, surveys, and studies and what they can tell us about this growing population.



Detrans Voices:



Post Trans:



Detrans Canada:



Detransition Sweden:



Detransition Russia:






Detrans Reddit:



Life Detransitions



Genspect (Beyond Transition Initiatives):



Beyond Transition:



Blood and Visions:



Autobiography in Five Chapters:



Extended Notes

  • Stella and Sasha are exploring topics around detransitioning. If you have topic suggestions and even recommended guests, please reach out!
  • Detransitioning is a complex world. There isn’t a simple phenomenon. Stella is working on a program called “Beyond Transition.”
  • Everyone in the trans world is aware there are detransitioners, but they’re wildly misunderstood.
  • Sasha talks about her personal experience with detransitioners.
  • Stella understands in the past that it was very difficult to celebrate with someone who has detransitioned. This new cohort she’s working with is being celebrated.
  • If you feel masculine and/or feminine, you suddenly have to dress for this personality.
  • Sasha has noticed more people becoming more vain. Is this due to social media?
  • What kind of person “suddenly” transitions? Why does someone put so much emphasis on looking female (make-up, hair, etc) only to completely switch?
  • After being in the trans world a while, some people might feel a bit burned out on the whole pronoun thing.
  • There’s a cohort of detransitioners out there who have chosen to stop taking hormones and not tell anybody. They’re not ready to face the negative backlash.
  • Stella feels like we’ve lost our way with this. Feelings of a man, feelings of a woman, and the permanence around modifying your body based on a mental state that is constantly in “flux.”
  • People who want to go back to their former selves need an elevated level of support. There is a lot to work through.
  • Taking hormones gives a wide range of side effects. For some, it can be very overbearing to manage the sudden rage or the sudden crying bouts.
  • Stella explains the psychology behind “falling in the hole” repeatedly and feeling bad you’ve found yourself back in this same position you were trying to avoid.


This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.


For more about our show: https://linktr.ee/widerlenspod

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode
Show artwork for Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast

About the Podcast

Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast
Two therapists explore the expanding concept of "gender" from a psychological depth perspective.
Gender dysphoria has become a minefield for public discussion, with many afraid to express their views or question the narrative. Our mission is to examine this important and complex topic from a range of perspectives, but always through a psychological lens. By openly considering and examining gender identity, transition, and the transgender umbrella, we hope to give all interested parties permission to engage these fascinating topics with less fear and more honesty. Interviews and discussions will involve clinicians, medical professionals, academics, transgender people, parents, detransitioners and other interesting individuals whose lives have been touched by the concept of gender.

Conversations between two practicing therapists give listeners an opportunity to contemplate gender from a depth perspective not currently taken up in most of today’s accessible debates. As a result of their work with gender dysphoric therapy clients as well as their personal divergent experiences with gender, Stella and Sasha hold a refreshing and informed perspective.

Is gender identity a facilitation of development and expression of creativity, or can it be a defense against painful existential realities of living in a human body? What can we discover about masculinity, femininity, identity, gender performance, and sexuality when we peer beneath the surface and dive into a deeper psychological exploration? What is the relationship between body, mind, identity, culture, and psyche?

This podcast engages listeners in an intimate and fascinating behind-the-scenes inquiry about a topic as taboo as it is salient today.

Thank you to our sponsors:
Genspect - an international organization which offers an alternative to WPATH. Providing a range of education, resources and supports to anyone impacted by gender distress, Genspect unites many different organizations globally, and gives voice to 1,000s of previously untold stories. For more info, visit genspect.org.

GETA - an association of therapists who believe that individuals experiencing gender related concerns ought to be treated using a whole person approach. GETA connects like minded clinicians, provides educational resources and trainings, and helps people with gender dysphoria find support. For more info, visit genderexploratory.com.
Support This Show

About your hosts

Stella O'Malley

Profile picture for Stella O'Malley
Stella O’Malley is a psychotherapist and author who works in private practice in Ireland. Her work focuses on parenting, family dynamics and working with teenagers.

Much of Stella’s counselling and writing focuses on mental health and the importance of well-being and she is a regular contributor to the media. She is also the resident psychotherapist for the current TV series, Raised by the Village, a family programme that helps troubled teenagers reconnect with themselves and their families.

Stella's first book, Cotton Wool Kids, was released in 2015 while Bully-Proof Kids: Practical tools to help kids grow up confident, resilient and strong was released in 2017. Stella’s latest book Fragile, was released in 2019 and focuses on overcoming anxiety and stress.

Stella was the presenter of the documentary Trans - Kids: It’s Time To Talk broadcast on Channel 4 in November 2018 and she contributed a chapter to the 2019 book, Inventing Transgender Children and Young People.

The Jungian analyst, Lisa Marchiano, and Stella launched Secrets of the Motherworld in September 2019, offering thoughtful exploration of the most intimate aspects of motherhood in a bid to help mothers feel less alone.

Stella is a Clinical Advisor for the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine and a founding member of the International Association of Therapists for Desisters and Detransitioners. She is also the lead facilitator for the Gender Dysphoria Support Network.

Stella holds a B.A. in Counselling and Psychotherapy and a M.A. in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

Sasha Ayad

Profile picture for Sasha Ayad
Sasha Ayad is a Licensed Professional Counselor who works in private practice, and has treated adolescents for over 10 years. Her work focuses on teens and young adults struggling with issues of gender dysphoria and gender identity.

She became interested in the sharp rise in teenagers who declare a trans identity for the first time during adolescence. She discovered, through working with hundreds of families, that many teens were developing gender dysphoria only after adopting a transgender identity. She questions the practice of medical transition for children and teenagers, and her clinical work focuses on developmentally appropriate, least-invasive-first talk therapy.

Sasha is also a founding member and Clinical Advisor in the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine and a founding member of the International Association of Therapists for Desisters and Detransitioners.

Sasha’s previous work experience includes:
- School counselor for middle and high school students at a charter school for underserved communities

- Behavioral therapy with children on the autism spectrum

- Individual and group counseling for women and children impacted by domestic abuse and sexual violence

- Developed and ran the first counseling program at a large state supported living facility for adults with intellectual disability

Sasha holds a B.S. in Psychology and an M.Ed. in Counseling Psychology.