Episode 133

133 - Is Trans REALLY the New Gay?

Published on: 29th September, 2023

Sasha and Stella discuss the current cultural impulse that suggests affirming “trans” identity is the same as affirming gay sexual orientation in young people - are these two declarations really as parallel as the social justice narrative claims them to be? Sasha and Stella emphasize the importance of not conflating the two and explore how society's response to a child's gender identity should differ from declarations about sexual orientation. This discussion provides valuable perspectives on the nuanced relationship between gender identity, sexuality, and the importance of careful consideration when affirming a child's self-defined gender .

Stella draws from her own personal experiences with gender dysphoria while growing up, and Sasha chimes in, offering expert insights from individual therapy with gender-distressed youth. This conversation sheds light on the challenges faced by young people navigating multiple aspects of their identity development. 

They stress the importance of listening deeply and compassionately to young people’s distress while carefully navigating the fine line between affirmation and genuine understanding so that children can feel truly heard and supported, rather than superficially being “agreed with.” This thought-provoking conversation highlights the nuances of gender identity and ways it may differ from sexual orientation while also considering the long-term consequences of medical interventions, challenging the affirmation-only narrative, and encouraging a more thoughtful and reflective approach to supporting trans-identified kids.

Links:

Order Our Book – When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents

https://whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/ 


Join Our Listener Community to Access Exclusive Bonus Content

https://www.patreon.com/WiderLensPod


Trans Kids: It's Time to Talk

http://www.stellaomalley.com/trans-kids-time-to-talk


Affirmation Therapy: Necessary, But Not Sufficient

https://youtu.be/WxRJQ_FI70c?feature=shared 


Helena Part 1: Social Justice, Fandoms & FtM Gay Boys

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/45-helena-part-1-social-justice-fandoms-ftm-gay-boys 


Helena Part II: Advice for Parents from a Former Trans Kid

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/46-helena-part-ii-advice-for-parents-from-a-former-trans-kid 


One Detrans Voice: A Conversation with Carol

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/15-one-detrans-voice-a-conversation-with-carol 


Facing Futility: You Can’t Actually Change Sex, with Corinna Cohn

https://youtu.be/-nSUAqdT0fw?si=cSC0slo2-4m_PI1C 


Explore Gender Identity Development Resources

www.genspect.org


Connect & Learn

https://www.genderexploratory.com/ 



If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting:

Episode 1 - Trans: Identity vs Dysphoria

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/trans-identity-vs-dysphoria 


Episode 4 - Why Do People Seek a New Identity?

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/why-do-people-seek-a-new-identity 


Episode 7 - Collective Collusion

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/7-collective-collusion 


Episode 78 — Affirming Reality for Kids with Stephanie Davies-Arai

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/78-affirming-reality-for-kids-with-stephanie-davies-arai 


Episode 103 — Follow the Gender-brick Road: from Bi to Pan to Trans

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/103-follow-the-gender-brick-road-from-bi-to-pan-to-trans 


Episode 110 — Pathologizing Normal: The Lure of Identity Labels & Diagnoses

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/110-pathologizing-normal-the-lure-of-identity-labels-diagnoses 


Please visit www.widerlenspod.com to explore more content, access additional resources, or to join our listener community.

Watch us on YouTube: www.youtube.com/@widerlenspod

For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups:

Sasha Ayad: https://inspiredteentherapy.com/parents-start-here 

Stella O’Malley: http://www.stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching


To learn more about our sponsors, visit:

GETA

Genspect

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast

About the Podcast

Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast
Two therapists explore the expanding concept of "gender" from a psychological depth perspective.
Gender dysphoria has become a minefield for public discussion, with many afraid to express their views or question the narrative. Our mission is to examine this important and complex topic from a range of perspectives, but always through a psychological lens. By openly considering and examining gender identity, transition, and the transgender umbrella, we hope to give all interested parties permission to engage these fascinating topics with less fear and more honesty. Interviews and discussions will involve clinicians, medical professionals, academics, transgender people, parents, detransitioners and other interesting individuals whose lives have been touched by the concept of gender.

Conversations between two practicing therapists give listeners an opportunity to contemplate gender from a depth perspective not currently taken up in most of today’s accessible debates. As a result of their work with gender dysphoric therapy clients as well as their personal divergent experiences with gender, Stella and Sasha hold a refreshing and informed perspective.

Is gender identity a facilitation of development and expression of creativity, or can it be a defense against painful existential realities of living in a human body? What can we discover about masculinity, femininity, identity, gender performance, and sexuality when we peer beneath the surface and dive into a deeper psychological exploration? What is the relationship between body, mind, identity, culture, and psyche?

This podcast engages listeners in an intimate and fascinating behind-the-scenes inquiry about a topic as taboo as it is salient today.

Thank you to our sponsors:
Genspect - an international organization which offers an alternative to WPATH. Providing a range of education, resources and supports to anyone impacted by gender distress, Genspect unites many different organizations globally, and gives voice to 1,000s of previously untold stories. For more info, visit genspect.org.

GETA - an association of therapists who believe that individuals experiencing gender related concerns ought to be treated using a whole person approach. GETA connects like minded clinicians, provides educational resources and trainings, and helps people with gender dysphoria find support. For more info, visit genderexploratory.com.
Support This Show

About your hosts

Stella O'Malley

Profile picture for Stella O'Malley
Stella O’Malley is a psychotherapist and author who works in private practice in Ireland. Her work focuses on parenting, family dynamics and working with teenagers.

Much of Stella’s counselling and writing focuses on mental health and the importance of well-being and she is a regular contributor to the media. She is also the resident psychotherapist for the current TV series, Raised by the Village, a family programme that helps troubled teenagers reconnect with themselves and their families.

Stella's first book, Cotton Wool Kids, was released in 2015 while Bully-Proof Kids: Practical tools to help kids grow up confident, resilient and strong was released in 2017. Stella’s latest book Fragile, was released in 2019 and focuses on overcoming anxiety and stress.

Stella was the presenter of the documentary Trans - Kids: It’s Time To Talk broadcast on Channel 4 in November 2018 and she contributed a chapter to the 2019 book, Inventing Transgender Children and Young People.

The Jungian analyst, Lisa Marchiano, and Stella launched Secrets of the Motherworld in September 2019, offering thoughtful exploration of the most intimate aspects of motherhood in a bid to help mothers feel less alone.

Stella is a Clinical Advisor for the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine and a founding member of the International Association of Therapists for Desisters and Detransitioners. She is also the lead facilitator for the Gender Dysphoria Support Network.

Stella holds a B.A. in Counselling and Psychotherapy and a M.A. in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

Sasha Ayad

Profile picture for Sasha Ayad
Sasha Ayad is a Licensed Professional Counselor who works in private practice, and has treated adolescents for over 10 years. Her work focuses on teens and young adults struggling with issues of gender dysphoria and gender identity.

She became interested in the sharp rise in teenagers who declare a trans identity for the first time during adolescence. She discovered, through working with hundreds of families, that many teens were developing gender dysphoria only after adopting a transgender identity. She questions the practice of medical transition for children and teenagers, and her clinical work focuses on developmentally appropriate, least-invasive-first talk therapy.

Sasha is also a founding member and Clinical Advisor in the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine and a founding member of the International Association of Therapists for Desisters and Detransitioners.

Sasha’s previous work experience includes:
- School counselor for middle and high school students at a charter school for underserved communities

- Behavioral therapy with children on the autism spectrum

- Individual and group counseling for women and children impacted by domestic abuse and sexual violence

- Developed and ran the first counseling program at a large state supported living facility for adults with intellectual disability

Sasha holds a B.S. in Psychology and an M.Ed. in Counseling Psychology.