Episode 128

128 - As Weird as a Chicken Crying: AAP Statement on Pediatric Gender Transition with Dr. Julia Mason

Published on: 25th August, 2023

“We are making strong recommendations based on weak evidence,” a statement from practicing pediatrician, Dr. Julia Mason, about the basis of gender affirming care, which is the model of care currently backed by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).

In this episode, Dr. Mason sits down with Sasha & Stella to discuss her relentless efforts towards charging the AAP to pursue a systematic review of the evidence behind gender affirming care. They discuss the series of events leading up to the AAP’s most recent article reaffirming their commitment to the affirmation model as laid out in the AAP’s policy statement published in 2018, but also announcing their authorization of a systematic review of the evidence. This decision on the part of the AAP comes long overdue in the wake of so many European organizations who have recently conducted their own reviews, all of which have resulted in abrupt shifts in the care protocols around gender transition.

Links:


NY Times article about the AAP's recent moves:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/03/health/aap-gender-affirming-care-evidence-review.html 


SEGM’s Spotlight

https://segm.org/news 


Rafferty’s 2018 AAP Statement

https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/142/4/e20182162/37381/Ensuring-Comprehensive-Care-and-Support-for 


Cantor Fact Checks the Rafferty Paper

http://www.jamescantor.org/uploads/6/2/9/3/62939641/cantor_fact-check_of_aap.pdf 


Wall Street Journal Article

https://www.wsj.com/articles/doctors-group-to-examine-guidelines-for-treatment-of-transgender-youths-dbe98caa  


The Cass Review | Interim Report - Independent Review of Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People

https://cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/


Genspect’s Open Letter to the AAP

https://genspect.org/an-open-letter-to-the-american-academy-of-pediatrics/ 


Leor Sapir’s Article

https://www.wsj.com/articles/second-thoughts-on-gender-affirming-care-american-academy-pediatrics-doctors-review-medicine-a7173276 


AAP Reaffirms But Authorizes Systematic Review

https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/25340/AAP-reaffirms-gender-affirming-care-policy?autologincheck=redirected 


Opinion Supporting Gender Dysphoric Youth

https://www.aap.org/en/news-room/aap-voices/supporting-our-transgender-and-gender-diverse-youth/


2015 Transgender Survey

https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf 


"What Is a Woman?" with Dr. Michelle Forcier that Julia references in the interview

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1532347722111516672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1532347722111516672%7Ctwgr%5Ed0ee6a9bed9cb16d7de351f7f8979a45cacbf2f8%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2Fcorner%2Fyoull-never-think-of-a-chicken-crying-the-same-way-ever-again%2F 


Pre-Order When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents

https://whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/ 


Attend Our Live Event – When Kids Say They’re Trans: Weekend of Workshops | September 21-24, 2023

https://whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/weekend-of-workshops




If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting:


Episode 6 — Gender Intervention: Treatment or Experiments?

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/gender-intervention-treatment-or-experiments


Episode 60 — Pioneers Series: We Contain Multitudes with Stephen Levine

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/60-pioneers-series-we-contain-multitudes-with-stephen-levine 


Episode 88 — Gender: Philosophy, Institutions, and Policy w/ Leor Sapir

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/88-gender-philosophy-institutions-and-policy-with-leor-sapir 


Episode 114 — The Dutch Protocol: A Deprivation of Sexual Development with Julia Mason and Stephen Levine

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/114-the-dutch-protocol-a-deprivation-of-sexual-development-with-julia-mason-and-stephen-levine 


Episode 116 — Identity Politics vs. The Pursuit of Knowledge with Dr. Michael Bailey

https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/116-identity-politics-vs-the-pursuit-of-knowledge-with-dr-michael-bailey 


The Dutch Studies Playlist

We have done a number episodes about the "Dutch Protocol" which precipitated the surge in youth gender transition. There are many things about the Dutch research that have been misinterpreted and misapplied in various medical settings. Here are all the episodes we've done so far where we dig deeper into the studies that started it all.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngVCeAoK6vudCwfy0R2Rvg_SH2QxBJTu 



Please visit www.widerlenspod.com to explore more content, access additional resources, or to join our listener community.


Watch us on YouTube: www.youtube.com/@widerlenspod


For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups:

Sasha Ayad: https://inspiredteentherapy.com/parents-start-here 

Stella O’Malley: http://www.stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching


To learn more about our sponsors, visit:

GETA

ReIME

Genspect


Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode
Show artwork for Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast

About the Podcast

Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast
Two therapists explore the expanding concept of "gender" from a psychological depth perspective.
Gender dysphoria has become a minefield for public discussion, with many afraid to express their views or question the narrative. Our mission is to examine this important and complex topic from a range of perspectives, but always through a psychological lens. By openly considering and examining gender identity, transition, and the transgender umbrella, we hope to give all interested parties permission to engage these fascinating topics with less fear and more honesty. Interviews and discussions will involve clinicians, medical professionals, academics, transgender people, parents, detransitioners and other interesting individuals whose lives have been touched by the concept of gender.

Conversations between two practicing therapists give listeners an opportunity to contemplate gender from a depth perspective not currently taken up in most of today’s accessible debates. As a result of their work with gender dysphoric therapy clients as well as their personal divergent experiences with gender, Stella and Sasha hold a refreshing and informed perspective.

Is gender identity a facilitation of development and expression of creativity, or can it be a defense against painful existential realities of living in a human body? What can we discover about masculinity, femininity, identity, gender performance, and sexuality when we peer beneath the surface and dive into a deeper psychological exploration? What is the relationship between body, mind, identity, culture, and psyche?

This podcast engages listeners in an intimate and fascinating behind-the-scenes inquiry about a topic as taboo as it is salient today.

Thank you to our sponsors:
Genspect - an international organization which offers an alternative to WPATH. Providing a range of education, resources and supports to anyone impacted by gender distress, Genspect unites many different organizations globally, and gives voice to 1,000s of previously untold stories. For more info, visit genspect.org.

GETA - an association of therapists who believe that individuals experiencing gender related concerns ought to be treated using a whole person approach. GETA connects like minded clinicians, provides educational resources and trainings, and helps people with gender dysphoria find support. For more info, visit genderexploratory.com.
Support This Show

About your hosts

Stella O'Malley

Profile picture for Stella O'Malley
Stella O’Malley is a psychotherapist and author who works in private practice in Ireland. Her work focuses on parenting, family dynamics and working with teenagers.

Much of Stella’s counselling and writing focuses on mental health and the importance of well-being and she is a regular contributor to the media. She is also the resident psychotherapist for the current TV series, Raised by the Village, a family programme that helps troubled teenagers reconnect with themselves and their families.

Stella's first book, Cotton Wool Kids, was released in 2015 while Bully-Proof Kids: Practical tools to help kids grow up confident, resilient and strong was released in 2017. Stella’s latest book Fragile, was released in 2019 and focuses on overcoming anxiety and stress.

Stella was the presenter of the documentary Trans - Kids: It’s Time To Talk broadcast on Channel 4 in November 2018 and she contributed a chapter to the 2019 book, Inventing Transgender Children and Young People.

The Jungian analyst, Lisa Marchiano, and Stella launched Secrets of the Motherworld in September 2019, offering thoughtful exploration of the most intimate aspects of motherhood in a bid to help mothers feel less alone.

Stella is a Clinical Advisor for the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine and a founding member of the International Association of Therapists for Desisters and Detransitioners. She is also the lead facilitator for the Gender Dysphoria Support Network.

Stella holds a B.A. in Counselling and Psychotherapy and a M.A. in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

Sasha Ayad

Profile picture for Sasha Ayad
Sasha Ayad is a Licensed Professional Counselor who works in private practice, and has treated adolescents for over 10 years. Her work focuses on teens and young adults struggling with issues of gender dysphoria and gender identity.

She became interested in the sharp rise in teenagers who declare a trans identity for the first time during adolescence. She discovered, through working with hundreds of families, that many teens were developing gender dysphoria only after adopting a transgender identity. She questions the practice of medical transition for children and teenagers, and her clinical work focuses on developmentally appropriate, least-invasive-first talk therapy.

Sasha is also a founding member and Clinical Advisor in the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine and a founding member of the International Association of Therapists for Desisters and Detransitioners.

Sasha’s previous work experience includes:
- School counselor for middle and high school students at a charter school for underserved communities

- Behavioral therapy with children on the autism spectrum

- Individual and group counseling for women and children impacted by domestic abuse and sexual violence

- Developed and ran the first counseling program at a large state supported living facility for adults with intellectual disability

Sasha holds a B.S. in Psychology and an M.Ed. in Counseling Psychology.