Episode 112

112 — Jamie Reed: “Every Ethical Line I Drew Was Walked On… We Are Hurting People”

Published on: 5th May, 2023

In this episode, hear a personal first-hand whistleblower account of the harmful practices taking place inside an American gender clinic. Jamie Reed, a former Case Manager at the Washington University School of Medicine Pediatric Transgender Center at St Louis Children’s Hospital reflects on her experiences inside the clinic that ultimately lead to her profound decision to file for whistleblower protection from the Missouri Attorney General’s office to publicly express her concerns with the judgment and care provided for the patients at the gender clinic.

Jamie, who herself identifies in the LGBTQIA community and is also a proud parent of five children, has a Bachelor’s Degree in Cultural Anthropology and a Master’s of Science in Clinical Research Management. In her conversation with Sasha & Stella, along with her attorney, Vernadette Broyles, not only does Jamie describe the experiences that led to the ultimate formal filing of her concerns, but both Jamie and Vernadette speak to the protections available to other clinicians and workers in this field that feel too intimidated to speak out about their observations and concerns.

Vernadette Ramirez Broyles is the President and General Counsel of Child Parental Rights Campaign, Inc., a not-for-profit public interest law firm that engages in litigation and advocacy across the country to protect children’s health and defend parental rights from the impacts of gender identity ideology. Ms. Broyles received her law degree from Harvard Law School and received her undergraduate degree in Biology from Yale University.


Affidavit of Jamie Reed


Child & Parental Rights Campaign, Inc.


Other Recent Features of Jamie Reed’s Story:

Appearance on the Transparency Podcast


Appearance on the Triggernometry Podcast


Interview with The Free Press


Free Press Article: https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

Article by Jesse Singal https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/gender-clinic-whistleblower-jamie

WPATH SOC8: https://www.wpath.org/soc8

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For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s private membership groups:

Sasha Ayad: https://inspiredteentherapy.com/parent-coaching

Stella O’Malley: http://www.stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching

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Extended Notes:

  • Jamie Reed is a courageous whistleblower.
  • She assumed that following the guidelines would protect patients who did not meet the criteria for medical transition.
  • When parents brought their children to the Transgender Center they believed the child would be given a scientific assessment, then make the determination.
  • There was no set process for gaining consent at the Transgender Center.
  • Some young people mistakenly believe that if they get hormones their mental health will be resolved.
  • The Transgender Clinic lied to the Missouri state legislature about underage medical surgeries.
  • An individual who went to the Transgender Clinic said they believed they were given a letter of support because they looked the part.
  • Jamie believes social contagion plays a role in young people’s decision to identify differently.
  • When Jamie raised red flags the medical staff gave her voice no meaning.
  • During patients’ follow-up visits, they would say that their mental health was getting worse.
  • There is reason to believe that other clinics are practicing in the same way.
  • Jamie worked for years to make the multidisciplinary model work before contacting the Missouri Attorney General.
  • Jamie shares the resources that were available via the internet, media, and standard of care documents before she decided to come forward legally.
  • In clinics, from mental health providers to endocrinologists, no one wants to claim responsibility for their actions.


“I think the parents really do believe that they are bringing their children to a medical center where a team of medical professionals is going to do an assessment and then make this determination. I think it's challenging for parents to have been through that to recognize that the assessment for everyone is essentially, always, well if you want the medicine we will give you the medicine. That is not how a true scientific assessment is supposed to work.” — Jamie Reed [11:26]

“I just kept feeling like every ethical line I drew was just walked on, and walked on, and walked on. There were conversations I had with these doctors when I said we are hurting people. We are hurting people. And what's kind of sickening is that it wasn't necessarily that the response was — no we're not hurting them. It was — Well, what do you want me to do about it?” — Jamie Reed [47:38]

“A co-worker was directly told that they were no longer allowed to use the phrase ‘I have concerns about this patient.’ When you work in medicine, in any kind of medicine, and to be told you are not allowed to say you have concerns about a patient is the exact opposite of what administrators should be telling medical professionals.” — Jamie Reed [56:32]

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About the Podcast

Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast
Two therapists explore the expanding concept of "gender" from a psychological depth perspective.
Gender dysphoria has become a minefield for public discussion, with many afraid to express their views or question the narrative. Our mission is to examine this important and complex topic from a range of perspectives, but always through a psychological lens. By openly considering and examining gender identity, transition, and the transgender umbrella, we hope to give all interested parties permission to engage these fascinating topics with less fear and more honesty. Interviews and discussions will involve clinicians, medical professionals, academics, transgender people, parents, detransitioners and other interesting individuals whose lives have been touched by the concept of gender.

Conversations between two practicing therapists give listeners an opportunity to contemplate gender from a depth perspective not currently taken up in most of today’s accessible debates. As a result of their work with gender dysphoric therapy clients as well as their personal divergent experiences with gender, Stella and Sasha hold a refreshing and informed perspective.

Is gender identity a facilitation of development and expression of creativity, or can it be a defense against painful existential realities of living in a human body? What can we discover about masculinity, femininity, identity, gender performance, and sexuality when we peer beneath the surface and dive into a deeper psychological exploration? What is the relationship between body, mind, identity, culture, and psyche?

This podcast engages listeners in an intimate and fascinating behind-the-scenes inquiry about a topic as taboo as it is salient today.

Thank you to our sponsors:
Genspect - an international organization which offers an alternative to WPATH. Providing a range of education, resources and supports to anyone impacted by gender distress, Genspect unites many different organizations globally, and gives voice to 1,000s of previously untold stories. For more info, visit genspect.org.

GETA - an association of therapists who believe that individuals experiencing gender related concerns ought to be treated using a whole person approach. GETA connects like minded clinicians, provides educational resources and trainings, and helps people with gender dysphoria find support. For more info, visit genderexploratory.com.
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About your hosts

Stella O'Malley

Profile picture for Stella O'Malley
Stella O’Malley is a psychotherapist and author who works in private practice in Ireland. Her work focuses on parenting, family dynamics and working with teenagers.

Much of Stella’s counselling and writing focuses on mental health and the importance of well-being and she is a regular contributor to the media. She is also the resident psychotherapist for the current TV series, Raised by the Village, a family programme that helps troubled teenagers reconnect with themselves and their families.

Stella's first book, Cotton Wool Kids, was released in 2015 while Bully-Proof Kids: Practical tools to help kids grow up confident, resilient and strong was released in 2017. Stella’s latest book Fragile, was released in 2019 and focuses on overcoming anxiety and stress.

Stella was the presenter of the documentary Trans - Kids: It’s Time To Talk broadcast on Channel 4 in November 2018 and she contributed a chapter to the 2019 book, Inventing Transgender Children and Young People.

The Jungian analyst, Lisa Marchiano, and Stella launched Secrets of the Motherworld in September 2019, offering thoughtful exploration of the most intimate aspects of motherhood in a bid to help mothers feel less alone.

Stella is a Clinical Advisor for the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine and a founding member of the International Association of Therapists for Desisters and Detransitioners. She is also the lead facilitator for the Gender Dysphoria Support Network.

Stella holds a B.A. in Counselling and Psychotherapy and a M.A. in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

Sasha Ayad

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Sasha Ayad is a Licensed Professional Counselor who works in private practice, and has treated adolescents for over 10 years. Her work focuses on teens and young adults struggling with issues of gender dysphoria and gender identity.

She became interested in the sharp rise in teenagers who declare a trans identity for the first time during adolescence. She discovered, through working with hundreds of families, that many teens were developing gender dysphoria only after adopting a transgender identity. She questions the practice of medical transition for children and teenagers, and her clinical work focuses on developmentally appropriate, least-invasive-first talk therapy.

Sasha is also a founding member and Clinical Advisor in the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine and a founding member of the International Association of Therapists for Desisters and Detransitioners.

Sasha’s previous work experience includes:
- School counselor for middle and high school students at a charter school for underserved communities

- Behavioral therapy with children on the autism spectrum

- Individual and group counseling for women and children impacted by domestic abuse and sexual violence

- Developed and ran the first counseling program at a large state supported living facility for adults with intellectual disability

Sasha holds a B.S. in Psychology and an M.Ed. in Counseling Psychology.